I was lucky to interview Donald W. Fisher,  president and CEO of the American Medical Group Association (AMGA), a trade association that represents medical groups, including some of the nation’s largest, most influential integrated health care delivery systems.  

AMGA’s membership includes medical groups that deliver health care to more than 50 million Americans in 42 states.

 

Butcher: What have we learned from the many pay for performance programs that are already in place?

 

Fisher: I think probably what we’ve learned from the get-go is that pay for performance just in and of itself does not go far enough, that if you build onto a current perverse reimbursement system incentives to kind of pay for assumed outcomes, you’re just going to get some small incremental improvements, but you’re never going to really get us to where we need to be with a new reimbursement system that really rewards quality and efficiency. Our current system which is built on volume and through-put simply will never get us there, so we need a whole new reimbursement system. I think that’s probably what we’ve learned the most is that it’s a great first step. It’s got us thinking about a new culture of payment that we need to change what we’re currently doing, but it’s not the final destination. It’s just a stop along our journey.

 

Butcher:  How soon do you see real payment reform coming, and do you foresee this as something that will happen gradually or are we getting ready for a rapid shift in the way care is paid for?

 

Fisher: I would like nothing more than to see a rapid shift to move completely away from the fee for service through-put model into something new. There’s a whole lot of proposals on the table that will get us there. I say that simply because we continue to pay for…the poorest quality gets paid the most in this country, and the less efficient providers get rewarded the same as the efficient providers. In fact, the efficient providers often get penalized for providing care efficiently and high quality. I’d prefer a rapid shift. My gut, though, says that it probably won’t happen that way. It will be incremental. There will be a lot of pilots. There will be testing of different payment mechanisms that will go on over the next three to five years, but we’ve got to have something by 2015 to 2018, because that’s when the babyboomers will be enrolled in Medicare in 2011, growing in significant numbers each year. They’re going to start to hit some chronic care conditions that are going to really drive our costs through the ceiling by 2015 to 2020.  I think it will be incremental. I’d love to see it be a rapid shift.

 

Butcher: Who do you think will initiate payment reform? Will this come from Medicare – I’m familiar with the MedPAC proposal – or private payers or perhaps providers themselves?

 

Fisher: When I look at this, I think that probably the drivers are going to be the employers and the providers themselves. I really don’t see Congress being the lead in creating health care reform. You kind of have a chicken/egg. You’ve got this large Medicare program which consumes most of the dollars in health care in this country, but yet you’ve got them governed by a Congress that has a very politicized way of looking at things. So it’s very difficult to get through the politics to do what’s really right for Medicare beneficiaries, and it’s really difficult to make changes in the system. My guess is it probably won’t come from Congress at the initial site. You’ll see a lot of things going on in the commercial side, a lot of experimentation pushed by providers as well as the employer community.